Today we’re announcing the launch of the Workforce Success Podcast. On the podcast, we’ll be exploring how industry leading companies are developing their biggest asset - their people, and what it looks like when world beating teams are operating at their peak performance.

On Episode One I sit down with Tasmin Tresize, co-founder of Workforce Management Platform Tanda. Tasmin walks me through how the company started and some of the lessons they’ve learnt building the company from 0 to 100 employees in 5 years.

We touch on a range of topics, including how the company embraces disruption, how technology can help traditional businesses innovate to stay ahead of the curve , how to build successful teams and how the company has harnessed human capital to fuel their success, rather than venture capital.

In wrapping up, Tasmin outlines his vision for the future of Workforce Management, and how Tanda is leveraging technology to help their clients achieve Workforce Success.

Show Transcript

[00:00:05] Welcome to the workforce success podcast where we speak to industry leaders how to grow massively successful companies by developing massively successful people. My name is Bryce Davies and it’s my job to bring you insights into how some of today’s biggest brands are winning the market by developing their biggest asset their people. Wherever you are working I want to give you the tools to make your work successful and dominate your industry. So without further ado let’s get it done.

[00:00:36] Bryce - Today I’ve got Tasmin Tresize here with me, co-founder of Tanda which is a software company based in Brisbane, Australia welcome Tasmin. I wanted to get you on today because it’s been a pretty wild ride you for you guys, you’ve grown really really quickly and building a bit of a following here in here in Brisbane and throughout the world. Do you want to just quickly give me your 30 second elevator pitch when you’re meeting people out at conferences and trying to give people a grasp of what your day to day looks like?

[00:01:10] Tasmin - Yes so Tanda. We started in Brisbane, we’re a workforce management platform so we specialise in things like staff scheduling, the interpretation of rates and tracking the hours and all it basically means is making it much easier to do the admin of hiring staff so you can focus more on helping them enjoy the experience of work and also helping them be more productive. So, they’re selling whatever it is more, so if your cafe it’s more coffees if you’re a pub it’s more beer you know.

[00:01:43] Bryce - So say I’m a business owner, what does that mean to me, say right now I’m a restauranteur or I run a retailer or manufacturer what are the sort of things I would be looking for in bringing you in and getting you to help out?

[00:01:58] Tasmin - I think just by working with thousands of businesses across the world we’ve found that everyone starts a business for a dream. So and that’s why they get into it and then they quickly realize that there’s a lot of moving parts of running a business and some things that they didn’t necessarily start for, and we found all of those are detractors for their main passion and vision. So really what we wanted to do was build those kind of tools and platform to help people to focus on what their dream is and build that as big and as fast as they can.

[00:02:31] Bryce - So that tool that you mentioned, what is that focused around? You mentioned time and attendance, scheduling and the rates. Is there anything else that you guys do throughout the world.

[00:02:41] Tasmin - Yes, so each market is quite different as well, doing work with labour complexity. So, being Australian is a funny thing we say we’re not known for much apart from beer, kangaroos and wage rate calculations. So we are the most complicated place in the world to pay staff. And one of the highest wage rates as well. So it just kind of came naturally, when we go into other markets also to be able to deal with the complexity around labor rate calculations. The EU is very complicated, America is getting quite complicated as well so we’ve been able to take the skills we’ve developed in Australia into those market. Each market is different it’s just about adapting the core software which is helping people be better

[00:03:27] Bryce - Well it sounds like it’s going really good, how long have you guys been operating for now in Australia and around the world?

[00:03:35] Tasmin - We’re a little bit different of a tech company. We started four years ago. We’ve never actually taken on capital. We’ve always thought money is cheap people are power. So I think that kind of ties in to the philosophy of workforce success as well which is, you individually can set your goals and choose what you want to achieve and it takes the same cognitive load to set a goal 10 times higher than the biggest one you’ve had. We’ve always thought that it’s our moral duty to help our people be successful and that’s kind of where we’ve always thought our growth was. Most people raise capital and hire people. Money is a motivator but it’s the outcome of the motivator, which is more valuable. Our story is a little bit different I guess from most tech companies that you would have on the show but it’s been mostly about how you can help people be successful at work. And we found that’s what helps scale and grow companies. That’s how we’ve gone in four years from nothing basically to being in all these different markets around the world and helping a lot of people scale their businesses at the same time.

[00:04:49] Bryce - Well that’s the dream isn’t it. I know when you when you think of software companies, I.T. companies we think of Google and Amazon and all these guys that start really small in a basement somewhere and grow up. I think a lot of the thing that’s missed in that you know is what that growth actually looks like from the people’s perspective. And I guess how lumpy that ride can be. Give us an idea from where you started, what sort of figures are we talking about now in terms of headcount and the offices you have around the world?

[00:05:29] Tasmin - Yeah, great question. So we’ve found those initial roles in that story are so often romanticized especially in the tech industry I think. The value is actually in your people, your teams and the people who are leading your teams and the businesses that they’re building within the business. So it can get romanticized, but it really is in the quality of the team, like it needs to get out hand in a very controlled way you know

[00:06:00] Bryce - Almost like a controlled demolition.

[00:06:02] Tasmin - Yeah exactly and you need the people to take that forwards and that’s how we’ve gone from zero staff four and a half years ago up to the 100 staff headcount have now and I think that’s what we realised, our success is only dependent on the success of our people. That’s all we need to focus on. Our employees are our number one customer. I don’t mean selling to them, I mean making them successful. If you start a business you’re not just trying to sell to your customer, you’re trying to actually improve their lives. And that should be the same focus we’ve found in our business. As it happens we’re also in the world of worktech so we’re also building technology to help other people live the same philosophy.

[00:06:47] Bryce - Yeah I mean you have certainly built a very unique culture where, just for everyone listening, we’re sitting in your meeting rooms looking out over level one of the building and you might have heard a loud slamming noise earlier which was basically someone digging a bell in the office and then you slamming your hand on the table in front of me, what does all of that mean in terms of terms of company culture.

[00:07:10] Tasmin - Yeah. So I mean it probably does require a bit of context. We’ve got a philosophy that any time a deal is made whether it’s between a customer and us or someone joining a team or with one of our suppliers, that’s it’s a bit of a miracle that we can live in a world where people can exchange value. It’s kind of like, you know if you work in a cafe and someone comes in and orders a meal, when they pay for the meal they get up and say thank you and the people who run the cafe say thank you back

[00:07:40] Bryce - Yeah. So there’s this equal exchange of value there.

[00:07:44] Tasmin - You know, it’s a beautiful moment. It’s like the world’s at peace. You know people have helped each other. We’ve helped each other achieve both of our goals at the same time simultaneously. So internally we just have a large respect for that, for the people who grow and scale businesses, close deals, open opportunities and it’s a sign of respect that we have I guess, slamming the table, just to take a moment to say thank you for the people who did that.

[00:08:13] Bryce - Yeah, it’s awesome and it’s really good to come into the office and experience it, especially to see everyone is still here on a Friday afternoon and working hard. Obviously you’ve got the beer fridge up the back and the ping pong table as you would expect in most startups but there does seem to be something different about the way that you guys operate. I did want to ask you, what were some of the standout challenges that you had to scaling the company? You mentioned before that you haven’t taken any capital which does constrain you in certain ways and you’ve got to find other ways to drive that engine of growth.

[00:09:05] Tasmin - Yeah. I mean the capital is a pertinent one just because I think we’re doing things a little bit differently from most people, but we always saw that as expedient but not necessarily long term valuable and not everything in life that is expedient is valuable. It has forced us to really understand ourselves, understand our customers and understand the things that we can do better. My old man always used to tell me that poverty builds character and you mentioned the ping pong table, but we actually don’t have a ping pong table. We have always refused to buy one because we’ve always gone to these startup events in techie offices and they’ve got a ping pong table and it feels like they’re doing it for show. So our ping pong table was actually our developers just put four desks together and then found this old board and used some thumbtacks to tack it together. I think that’s more the mentality, that’s probably the best analogy I can give you for how we’ve scaled and how the traditional limitations haven’t really applied to us because, we can have a ping pong table. We just made it out of what we already have. You can always do more with what you have. If you care enough about what you’re trying to achieve you’ll always find a way.

[00:10:27] Bryce - Yeah it’s that bootstrapping mentality in a way isn’t it because you see a lot of companies go out and raise a bunch of capital and they’ll have a fancy office and they’ll they’ll have a brand new ping pong table. It makes you think well, how else is the money being allocated and how they’re getting the most out of it. Would you say that constraint has helped you be a bit more careful with your money or help you to stretch it and get more value out of it?

[00:10:52] Tasmin - No I just think that that usually doesn’t bring purpose and happiness. It’s like a validation mark but if you really believe in who you are and what you’re doing why do you need validation? There’s a lot of cosmetic validation we see in the capital markets, from VC’s and people who are starting up their businesses and stuff like that and it’s also not the main reason why I do things or the way I’ve found that other people do things. Like yeah sure it’s a motivator but there’s something else that I think is innate in all of us that want to do things better. We’ve built this company on the back of people power which is the investment, which is the focus, not financial capital. As I said money is cheap, people are power and it’s in the quality of a team and it’s the same for all of our clients as well. That’s why I believe in it so strongly because we get to see it. We see a lot of companies raise a lot of money or have a big bank account but then ultimately fail because they get that wrong. They think that that’s the determiner of success. It really isn’t.

[00:12:05] Bryce - I suppose as well when you take a bunch a capital you’re beholden to the fund or the individual that’s putting the money in. Are there any moves that you guys have made that you wouldn’t otherwise have been allowed to or been permitted by someone looking to get short term gains?

[00:12:33] Tasmin - Yeah. So I guess in the last six months we have expanded into two new major markets the US and the UK. We’ve brought on a whole bunch of new teams. We’ve diversified our products where we’ve got a multiple product offering line all at the same time. We went to a conference in San Francisco and that’s unheard of, in fact that’s cautioned, even if you go and raise. I think that’s just the greatest example. But we were able to achieve that and it’s more satisfying to be able to say that we achieved that despite not raising capital. As I said it’s an idol, it’s a testament to that it is possible and you shouldn’t let that hold you back.

[00:13:30] Bryce - Yeah I mean it’s an unfortunate position isn’t it because you have your baby, you have your idea. You go out to the market and raise a bunch of money, hire a bunch of people and you find yourself three to five years down the track veering off that course. You may have taken more risk, you may have been throwing a few more things out of the box. I do see a lot of companies start to become a little bit more risk averse over time.

[00:13:55] Tasmin - They’re in less control of their own destiny and you need to be in control of your own destiny to improve it. Otherwise you can’t improve it and you have the most skin in the game to need to improve it. So well yeah if you really care about it, that’s why mostly people IPO, it’s people trying to get out of business. They’re trying to leave them.

[00:14:17] Bryce - Well you know almost by by definition isn’t it.

[00:14:19] Tasmin - Yeah. So we’ve always taken the view as well, we actually really care about this. We think what we’re doing is in the national interest, that’s its in the interests of our clients. It’s helped improve people’s lives. This is something we really care about.

[00:14:35] Bryce - Yeah it sounds like you’re doing really good work. One thing I wanted to ask you, you say your head count is what roughly 80 to 100 or so at the moment? I think the other kind of myth there is in the startup tech scene is you’ve got this David and Goliath kind of battle. You’ve got now the small guy with a really good idea and a bunch of hubris who is going up against an IBM or a Amazon or just some massive company. You know these companies, they compete in a lot of ways, they compete on good ideas and new technologies but they’re also competing for talent. We know we’ve got great talent coming out of the universities but how do you go about attracting and retaining the talent here as opposed to your competitors?

[00:15:52] Tasmin - Yeah well how do we make them successful? Because we care more about helping our people who join the team be successful. We can’t afford not to make people successful because of the position we’re in. There’s no other option. We take that view if you want to make a difference and you want to learn what it actually takes, because the default of any business is to not exist. So if you go and start at one of those bigger businesses whether you are there or not it almost doesn’t matter. I guess probably going to exist anyway.

[00:16:34] Bryce - Just because of how big it is and how big the teams are?

[00:16:36] Tasmin - Yeah, their mindset is to just keep things as the way they are. Whereas our mindset is to break things and disrupt the way things are. And I think that attracts a certain type of person who wants to make it better and improve the world. Part of improving the world is breaking an old way of doing thing. So you’ve really got two ways to live it philosophically. I put it down to either nihilism, where its fate and destiny and there’s nothing you can do to improve life and for those people I to say stay at home, like why get up? Or you can be an existentialist, you can believe that life can be better and that you can improve things. But part of improving things is breaking the way the old ways were happening. I think that’s the attitude and the philosophy, and that’s also the philosophy that we take to our work. I talk to a mom and dad 10 person cafe right up to, you know 50000 plus businesses and it’s the same thing. Yeah you might have done it this way 30 to 50 years ago. But there’s a better way, and it’s that creative disruption that improves the world. I think especially young people see that as well, for example the millennial workforce which as a whole people seem to not understand how to engage and create meaning for. Well, it’s just that they’re looking to improve the world. You’ve got to give them the path and the tools to be able to do that. So that’s what we’ve found and I think that’s why we have a particularly young workforce, but that’s okay because our clients have particularly young workforces as well. We’re really building software that makes us successful and therefore the workforces of our clients as well.

[00:18:31] Bryce - There’s so much there, it’s interesting what you mentioned there about your clients, to use the example at the coffee shop. You wouldn’t have thought that there’s too much room to innovate in a coffee shop. Do you think through the tools that you make and the experience that you have that you’re helping some of these more traditional industries innovate?

[00:18:54] Tasmin - Yeah you’d be surprised at how much innovation is in a coffee shop. You’re right. You just go in and you just think you get cappuccino and you’re out. But there is just so much happening behind the scenes to be able to let you have that experience of just going in to get your coffee and get going. I had an hour chat yesterday with the cafe owner across the road actually from our office just around all the different systems she was using and how open minded she was. It was the same attitude that we have here which is like yeah you’ve got to innovate or you’re going to be left behind. She said you know if I don’t do anything, the coffee shop down the road is going to be one step ahead. She got it because she was closer to the problem. I think that also goes to the philosophy of small teams we have here as well and the distribution of responsibility. Let people closest to the problem make the decision. We’ve found that is more salient in the cafes, like it’s more obvious because they’re so close to the problem. They want to do everything they can to be better because they are truly passionate about their clients that walk in and out of the store all day. They can see them, they see them every single day and they want them to be happy.

[00:20:13] Bryce - So that is that owner manager mentality, where you’ve got skin in the game. There aren’t these levels of middle management that abstract management from the actual customer and producing that value. We touched on something earlier around competition, you mentioned the word disruption, and that to create a new world we have to break the one that we have. But you know companies like yourself that are growing quickly, and you have been in the market for a while, you yourself are also open to being disrupted. You almost become the Goliath and then there’s a new David that that moves into the market. How do you guys think about staying competitive and resist that disruptive sort force that happens.

[00:21:05] Tasmin - Yeah I think it’s just lucky that I’m the easiest person to sell to. I have a very low action threshold to working with people or being sold to. I’ve always just taking the view that I’m very open to people approaching me and trying to pitch to me how to improve my life. That’s what they’re trying to do, they’re trying to improve their life. They can only do that if they improve mine, and that’s the mutual benefit that we’re talking about.

[00:21:32] Bryce - So do you mean that from a vendor perspective, as in there are other people coming and selling you services that is making your business more valuable?

[00:21:40] Tasmin - You achieve success in partnership with other people. So that’s part of it, being open to that. Being open to how other people can help you be successful. The equivalent of that for workforce success is being in a cafe, if you never ask someone for help when it’s your first day and you’re learning, well it’s going to take you a very very long time to learn how to make coffee because it’s not that easy, I’ve tried. I’m terrible, I would never be able to work in a café. But you have to rely on the help and support of others and that also means your team as well. Guess what, your team is going to have better ideas than you do. You should be hiring people who are smarter than you and telling you what to do. In terms of the product we wake up every morning and ask how can we better improve our product to improve the lives of our users. That has to be its sole focus.

[00:22:31] Bryce - In that coffeeshop example where if you’re not asking for help you’re not getting better. Well that’s one thing if you don’t know how to make a coffee. But say you did know how to make coffee one way before you came into work. You’ve worked at a big corporate coffee chain like a Starbucks type get up and then you come into a specialty coffee shop and you don’t know how to handle it. It’s not just that you don’t know how to do it, it’s that you’re actually doing it wrong. But it’s wrong in a different much more annoying way.

[00:23:01] Tasmin - Exactly, it’s almost better to not know how to do something because you’re more open to the options. As soon as you start doing it a certain way, that’s your way. And it takes a shock to the system to then go back and re-apply yourself. We were talking about the corporate careers before. It takes a while for them to realize that they’re not necessarily happy doing their 9 to 5 corporate gig because people are so concerned with climbing the ladder of success, they don’t realize that you’ve got to put the ladder on the right wall. So if you spend your time climbing that ladder and then you realize when you’re halfway up that this isn’t the right way. You can’t just move the ladder. You’ve got to get down there, you’ve got to cross and you’ve got to get back up. That’s why we say being open minded is a value, it’s a good thing. You’ve got to be open to disruption as you’re trying to learn something as well because there’s usually better ways to do something.

[00:24:17] Bryce - Like riding that wave as opposed to letting it crash over you.

[00:24:20] Tasmin - Yeah and having that internally as well, like not being afraid to kill projects because they’re not going well. I mean you’ve got to have the confidence to ride them out and obviously push forward. But you have to constantly be reassessing yourself and your projects, what you’re doing to deliver value and most of all helping others to achieve their projects and what they’re trying to do.

[00:24:46] Bryce - There’s this big thing in business, especially in a traditional business that the value in a company is around the processes. So when you think of say McDonald’s, everything they’ve done has really been built up around process so that they can hire, you know essentially 14 year olds, 15 year olds and have them run a monolithic corporate giant. Pretty much everyone that would work there would be under the age of 18 or 20. And that’s what has led a lot of people to believe that the true value that’s stored in a company is the processes that’s built up there. But if you take that mentality I find that it kind of overlooks what individual people can bring as value to a business. How do you how do you think about that? Do you see Tanda as a company where most of the value is caught up in these processes that you’ve refined over the years or do you put the store of value in the actual people that you have.

[00:25:48] Tasmin - Yeah I think it is a cycle. The value of business is always in the scale and repetition. It’s not always to do something new . If you were waking up every single morning and doing something completely different you’re not going to get anywhere because you’re running in circles. So you’ve got to set processes and you’ve got to set systems for scale and repetition so you can derive value and get good at it. But that’s the cycle. You always have to be somewhat paranoid and have it in the back of your head that what you’re doing can be better and improving it. Systems and processes don’t mean anything if you don’t have the attitude for it. You say anyone can go work in a pizza store, I wouldn’t agree. Not everyone can. Sure they’ve got the systems for anyone to come in but unless you’ve got the right attitude which is the most valuable thing it’s not going to happen. I think a world where more people have that is a world that’s a better place and that’s what I’m trying to build. Sadly some people come in and if you have the right attitude all those systems and those processes don’t matter because in terms of the individual value that’s what counts and that’s what matters. It’s the attitude of improving yourself, improving the world. Those are the type of people we look for to work here as well. That’s how we’ve grown. Through those exact people.

[00:27:16] Bryce - It’s almost like what we were talking about before where if you don’t know anything, sometimes that’s better than knowing a little bit or you know being stuck in it. I suppose that reminds me of the McDonald’s situation as a lot of people they’re getting in are quite young. It might be their first job or their second job they’re giving them the processes, but they may also be giving them room to grow. I know that looking around most of the people that you have in the office are quite young. Do you find that the processes that you have here really bolster some of younger guys to come up and deliver that value?

[00:27:50] Tasmin - Yeah, this is actually a quote told to me by one of our national franchise clients in Australia, it’s the young who go to war. So me for example if this was the 1940s I would have been shipped off to the Western Front, given a rifle and told you’ve got to lead this company of 20 men, Good luck.

[00:28:14] Bryce - Sink or swim

[00:28:16] Yeah. And I would have to figure it out. So I think young people like me want to take on that responsibility and can, and have the right energy but you’ve still got to set up the right systems and processes for them to be successful in it. That’s what most businesses are trying to do, they’re trying to set up those processes that people can come in and really thrive with their attitude and have room for those ideas and to grow within that ecosystem as well.

[00:28:45] Bryce - You took a bit of a different path there, I thought you were going to be straight on it, saying our people are everything but it’s really interesting to hear just how much value is stored in those processes especially when you can use them to unlock the value in the people that you’ve got.

[00:29:04] Tasmin - We need systems to break systems as well. A good example is at Tanda we have an internal hack day. So we have an external hackathon where developers come to our office and build on our platform using our API and build new products around it. Now we have an internal hack day where everyone at Tanda comes together and works on a single process, or a single idea to improve the lives of a team at another office or their office. You’ve got to set up a system to be able to break systems at the same time, because otherwise if you have complete chaos things can get away from you. So that’s what we say at Tanda, things are getting out of hand in a very controlled way.

[00:29:54] Bryce - Yeah certainly certainly looks that way. I’ve got two questions for you. I’m going to switch the order just based on what we’ve covered so far. I want to ask you a question about HR. Now people seem very divided on this topic, when I speak to people about HR, it tends to go one of two ways. Either they don’t have a HR department, they’re essentially working in small companies, maybe a family run business or they have a HR. department but they see them as an inhibitor. I’ve never heard someone say to me I love our HR department or you know we really think that our HR department is adding value. What are HR departments getting wrong across the board and what should be their role in a workforce that’s evolving to be more people focused.

[00:30:51] Tasmin - You know it’s a good and controversial question. So the successful HR people we’ve seen have been relentless at looking at the ways that their people are working and helping improve the way they do it. Their lives at work, their experience at work and their success whatever that is. Helping them just have that single focus and becoming the best at it. Where we’ve seen some fall down the past is that HR can be a proxy or a symbol that you have problems.

[00:31:34] Bryce - If you need a HR department in the first place.

[00:31:35] Tasmin - Yeah because you’ve got problems. Whereas if you don’t have problems then sometimes you don’t need as big of a HR department. Office gossip is just a very small example. I’ve always thought that’s just a proxy for people not having something to do. If everyone was focused on what they were doing and what they were achieving then they wouldn’t have time to complain about other people. It’s what happens when someone’s not sure about their work or they’re not sure about their own success that then they can go round and gossip about each other. The gossip is not the problem. It’s a symptom of a problem. Good HR departments I’ve found attack the problem head on not the symptoms. Going after that root problem and saying how do we solve that, how do we help people to have more purpose at work? How do we give them a better experience? How do we help them enjoy what they’re doing?

[00:32:36] Bryce - So more of a holistic approach.

[00:32:38] Tasmin - Its the same as in society, like the elite of society complaining about other people, like they’re not doing anything. If they had something to do, well most people who judge people just don’t have something better to do. That’s what I’ve always thought.

[00:32:54] Bryce - Yeah wasting their energy. So I guess you’ve seen some good HR departments and some just putting bandaids on the problem. How should a company view the HR department? Even if you don’t just say the department, rather this practice of developing your workforce. How should a company think about it in terms of ROI and what that’s going to add to their success being forward?

[00:33:26] Tasmin - I always thought the goal of the HR of department should be turning the success of their people from an art to a science. Some businesses are successful just because they have people who have an inherent want to be better and want to have success. But they have a team that’s dedicated to turning that into a science. So a repeatable scalable science, instead of just an art which is more subjective. And it doesn’t need to be subjective. Success can be a science, we’ve proven that here.

[00:34:04] Bryce - Proven it by repeated success or being able to measure it?

[00:34:09] Tasmin - Repetition as you know is the marker.

[00:34:16] Bryce - So one final question. I feel we’ve covered so much ground and I’ve really loved this. I’m asking about progression, and I wanted to leave this to the end because I think it flows really nicely into where you see the company going over the next two to five to ten years. Now again there’s another antiquated idea around progression at a company where you join a team, you move up, you lead that team, you sort of go up this organizational hierarchy and that’s what progression looks like in a career. Obviously just by the pure nature of what a pyramid looks like or what most organizational structures looks like that’s not viable for everyone and nor would everyone want to run a team. You seem to have a fairly flat organizational structure, how do you guys view progression at Tanda in the various roles that you have and tailoring them to the individual.

[00:35:13] Tasmin - So I guess firstly Tanda is a meritocracy. The people who are good at what they do rise to the positions that they can succeed in. It’s whatever their natural skill set is, they apply themselves. Now, I think it’s a fallacy that people fall in that just because they are good at what they do they somehow have to be a manager. It doesn’t make any sense. The value in an organisation is always on the frontline teams. Our philosophy is actually you take the traditional corporate hierarchy and take a total 180 flip because it’s your customers at the top and it’s your frontline teams that service customers. They know more about your business than you do and it’s your responsibility to make them successful. We try and keep ourselves into small teams that are self managing so we can focus on core problems or specific focuses. If you have managers, say at a cafe or a retailer or a pizza store, the reason they exist is to help their team be successful, so they can focus on that singular mission of helping the client be successful. That kind of flows all the way down. I constantly tell people here, like I work for you, you should be telling me what to do. What is it that I can do to make you successful. It’s your responsibility to tell me that so I can then go and do that. So that’s our philosophy which is again controversial and different but I think it has helped our teams be set up for success.

[00:37:04] Bryce - Well it sounds like you’re leveraging the best people that you can find and like I said before I can see there are lots of young guys around and obviously they are stepping up and growing into their roles. Maybe to finish this off what does progression look like now rather not from an individual perspective. What is Tanda’s progression over the next two to five years.? Let’s just say you do everything right. You’re kicking all the goals, you’re winning all the battles. Where do you see the company progressing into the future?

[00:37:39] Tasmin - So obviously we’ve got big goals and ambitions and we know the success of that is dependent on our teams. So we’re going to continue to invest in the environment and the people so we can achieve that. That’s also measured on how much we can help other people be successful as well. For our clients, that’s what we can build to improve their lives so they can continue that philosophy of workforce success as well and achieve it. Overall, our big goal is to be known for having one of the highest quality workforces because we don’t think we have the right to tell other people how to be successful with their people if we aren’t ourselves. And you know eventually the big goal is to have the world’s largest workforce. We think what we’re doing is incredibly valuable. Business is easy, people are hard and labour is one of the hardest and most important problems of the world. That’s what we’re trying to solve. We’re trying to solve how to make people be successful at work and we think there’s a lot of value in that. It’s in the national interest. It’s in the world’s interest, people being productive is a very important thing to do and we think we have the capacity to build the world’s largest team.

[00:39:02] Bryce - Well mate it sounds like you’re well on your way. It’s Friday afternoon here it sounds like the office is gearing up because the beer fridge is open and everything is flowing. Thank you so much for having me in and I really look forward to seeing how it goes over the next couple of years.

[00:39:51] Tasmin - Thanks very much. Thanks.